OK, I actually agree mostly with the inBubbleBrethren.
I would, however, amend/clarify the iBB definition. I'm not sure if a sport *has* to have a ball-like object; rather, a sport must have a *central focus*. This is why volleyball is a sport and dodgeball isn't, why hockey is a sport and boxing (which can be similar to hockey :)) is not. Incidentally, it's nearly impossible to have a central focus without a single ball-like object, just because we're humans and thus all have at least mild ADD.
This doesn't mean that there isn't a ton going on away from the central point of focus. A great soccer forward positions himself or herself where they can receive a pass and be in a position to score; a great wide receiver outruns his cornerback to set himself up for the end-zone pass. But, in all cases, there is one central point of focus that determines the action and the result of the action -- the points. You can't score if you don't have, catch, kick, throw, beat, or kill the man with the object of central focus.
Re: athletic. Agree in principle, but... I mean, baseball? Have you looked at David Wells recently? :) Just kidding, mostly.
Offense and defense are critical. Golf is not a sport (disc or otherwise). This is an individual competition; you are playing to the best of your ability against the surface, course, or other challenges, but not in direct physical competition with other people. In fact, in golf, often the person who wins is the person who can ignore what others are doing and play his or her own round. Clearly a competition, not a sport. I used to shoot a bow when I was younger. I even won an archery competition. Not a sport.
Regarding the requirement for a professional league, though. I might amend this to "governing body with established and generally accepted rules". I agree that the million variations of scrapyard stickball are not "sports" per se, but in order to get paid to play a sport, it needs spectators willing to pay to watch. Case in point: soccer was a sport in the US long before US soccer players could earn a living in MLS. But, there were definitely governing bodies who established the rules of soccer.
Agreed on regulated surface. I used to be a cross-country runner. I have tons of respect for people who run CC and track, as it's mentally and physically more challenging than a lot of sports I've played (I also played soccer, quite poorly, for a number of years, and baseball, even more poorly, for some time). But, running is not a sport. Track violates the "central focus" rule and the "offense/defense" rule, and CC also violates the "regulated surface" rule. Running is a mode of transportation, an extremely challenging activity, a form of meditation, and maybe even a way of life; just not a sport.
I'm just curious as to why you didn't include some sort of regulating official in the definition... although I suppose this could be a corollary to the "governing bodies" rule.
I too have now thought about this *way* too much...
Oh, I think you are silly InBubblePooPooHeads. This is all a conspiracy to elevate the boring GAME of baseball. (no wonder it's been so long since I won anything in IBBW).
Sport: Physical activity - yes. Established set of rules - yes. Ball - no. Professional league - not necessary. Competition - yes, but the best competition is with oneself; however, competition from external sources is necessary for variety.
OK, I'm doing all that I can not to fire off a fairly substantial list of sports that you did not mention. I'm not going to...OK just a couple - DISC GOLF and BMX (bicycle motocross racing). There, I feel better.
Also, I REALLY need to win those forks! We're having a big BBQ party next weekend and I can definitely put those forks to good use....thanks in advance!
Dodgeball was actually the toughest one to decide on. But reading through the Pro Dodgeball Rules (as we thoroughly did yesterday), you will note that there are as many as six balls in play at one time. This is a clear violation of rule number 1, thereby relinquishing dodgeball's claim to sport.
While as a former swimmer I'm uncomfortable with your definition, I think I can accept it just on the basis that it includes dodgeball (c.f. www.nationaldodgeball.com for professional details).
I think skiing is a way to get down a hill. Competitive skiing is a competitive way to get down a hill. Karate, Fencing, and Wrestling are all just point based fights. All great activities, maybe even superior to some sports, but not sports according to our definition.
Hey iBG, glad to see you included Rugby on that list! As a Rugby player of many years I can attest to the spirit of competition, and both the physical and mental attributes needed to stay 'in the game'. I think sports can teach us a lot in life, and the basic concepts of teamwork, focus and drive can easily be carried over into the workplace. Except at work, you can get in trouble for tackling people (someone should have told me that beforehand)...
ibg, do agree that you need a cardiovascular exercise to qualify an activity as sport (curling, anyone?), and the competition sounds fine. Only you don't need teams - nor a league, nor an approved surface. A sport is the competition of the person against themselves, and if it happens that they have an opponent against who to measure, fine. If not, it is still a sport.
Hey, OK, I yield on that point - but what Karate? Fencing? Wrestling? What about skiing!
Can we at least all agree that FISHING is a pasttime, and most definitely not a sport?
posted by Amy D. | June 15, 2007 08:30 PM
Now that you have defined SPORT for the ages, why don't you give defining ART a shot?
-iBLF, always down for rhetorical cage rattling
PS Please use bullet points.
posted by inBubbleLadyFriend | June 15, 2007 04:28 PM
OK, I actually agree mostly with the inBubbleBrethren.
I would, however, amend/clarify the iBB definition. I'm not sure if a sport *has* to have a ball-like object; rather, a sport must have a *central focus*. This is why volleyball is a sport and dodgeball isn't, why hockey is a sport and boxing (which can be similar to hockey :)) is not. Incidentally, it's nearly impossible to have a central focus without a single ball-like object, just because we're humans and thus all have at least mild ADD.
This doesn't mean that there isn't a ton going on away from the central point of focus. A great soccer forward positions himself or herself where they can receive a pass and be in a position to score; a great wide receiver outruns his cornerback to set himself up for the end-zone pass. But, in all cases, there is one central point of focus that determines the action and the result of the action -- the points. You can't score if you don't have, catch, kick, throw, beat, or kill the man with the object of central focus.
Re: athletic. Agree in principle, but... I mean, baseball? Have you looked at David Wells recently? :) Just kidding, mostly.
Offense and defense are critical. Golf is not a sport (disc or otherwise). This is an individual competition; you are playing to the best of your ability against the surface, course, or other challenges, but not in direct physical competition with other people. In fact, in golf, often the person who wins is the person who can ignore what others are doing and play his or her own round. Clearly a competition, not a sport. I used to shoot a bow when I was younger. I even won an archery competition. Not a sport.
Regarding the requirement for a professional league, though. I might amend this to "governing body with established and generally accepted rules". I agree that the million variations of scrapyard stickball are not "sports" per se, but in order to get paid to play a sport, it needs spectators willing to pay to watch. Case in point: soccer was a sport in the US long before US soccer players could earn a living in MLS. But, there were definitely governing bodies who established the rules of soccer.
Agreed on regulated surface. I used to be a cross-country runner. I have tons of respect for people who run CC and track, as it's mentally and physically more challenging than a lot of sports I've played (I also played soccer, quite poorly, for a number of years, and baseball, even more poorly, for some time). But, running is not a sport. Track violates the "central focus" rule and the "offense/defense" rule, and CC also violates the "regulated surface" rule. Running is a mode of transportation, an extremely challenging activity, a form of meditation, and maybe even a way of life; just not a sport.
I'm just curious as to why you didn't include some sort of regulating official in the definition... although I suppose this could be a corollary to the "governing bodies" rule.
I too have now thought about this *way* too much...
posted by Asheen | June 15, 2007 03:59 PM
Oh, I think you are silly InBubblePooPooHeads. This is all a conspiracy to elevate the boring GAME of baseball. (no wonder it's been so long since I won anything in IBBW).
Sport: Physical activity - yes. Established set of rules - yes. Ball - no. Professional league - not necessary. Competition - yes, but the best competition is with oneself; however, competition from external sources is necessary for variety.
posted by PDNcoach | June 15, 2007 03:12 PM
At least none of you defined sport as "something shown on ESPN".
posted by inbubbledad | June 15, 2007 02:25 PM
By your definition does that mean that badminton and tetherball are sports for the out of shape?
posted by Kathy Morgan | June 15, 2007 01:23 PM
OK, I'm doing all that I can not to fire off a fairly substantial list of sports that you did not mention. I'm not going to...OK just a couple - DISC GOLF and BMX (bicycle motocross racing). There, I feel better.
Also, I REALLY need to win those forks! We're having a big BBQ party next weekend and I can definitely put those forks to good use....thanks in advance!
posted by Clint Sample | June 15, 2007 12:39 PM
Dodgeball was actually the toughest one to decide on. But reading through the Pro Dodgeball Rules (as we thoroughly did yesterday), you will note that there are as many as six balls in play at one time. This is a clear violation of rule number 1, thereby relinquishing dodgeball's claim to sport.
posted by inBubbleGuy | June 15, 2007 11:32 AM
While as a former swimmer I'm uncomfortable with your definition, I think I can accept it just on the basis that it includes dodgeball (c.f. www.nationaldodgeball.com for professional details).
posted by J Sullivan | June 15, 2007 11:27 AM
Camilo..
I think skiing is a way to get down a hill. Competitive skiing is a competitive way to get down a hill. Karate, Fencing, and Wrestling are all just point based fights. All great activities, maybe even superior to some sports, but not sports according to our definition.
posted by in BubbleBrother | June 15, 2007 11:17 AM
in today's ibw, i did not list all sports and all things that are not sports. That said:
Hockey = Yes
Karate, Fencing, Skiing, Track = No
Look, it's OK to be a competition. there's no shame in being a competition or an art form or an activity. But they are simply NOT sports.
posted by inBubbleGuy | June 15, 2007 10:56 AM
What about Rodeo? Track and Field? Hockey? eh?
posted by Funky Bunke | June 15, 2007 10:52 AM
Hey iBG, glad to see you included Rugby on that list! As a Rugby player of many years I can attest to the spirit of competition, and both the physical and mental attributes needed to stay 'in the game'. I think sports can teach us a lot in life, and the basic concepts of teamwork, focus and drive can easily be carried over into the workplace. Except at work, you can get in trouble for tackling people (someone should have told me that beforehand)...
posted by The Hooligan | June 15, 2007 10:45 AM
ibg, do agree that you need a cardiovascular exercise to qualify an activity as sport (curling, anyone?), and the competition sounds fine. Only you don't need teams - nor a league, nor an approved surface. A sport is the competition of the person against themselves, and if it happens that they have an opponent against who to measure, fine. If not, it is still a sport.
Hey, OK, I yield on that point - but what Karate? Fencing? Wrestling? What about skiing!
You need a larger definition.
posted by Camilo Ramirez | June 15, 2007 10:34 AM